Category: Zone BBS Suggestions and Feedback
Okay, so the religious among us have our place to talk about God, request prayers, and other such things without the risk of being put down by others. Is it too much to ask for the atheist/agnostic among us to have one too? Growing up as an atheist isn't always easy with moderate to extreme religious people all around us, and I think we deserve to have a place to be able to duscuss our atheist views without being bashed.
My personal Belief is not of atheism
though I would think that there would
be a place for such a Board under SAFE HAVEN.
it's about damn time someone brought this to the table; thanks, Jess!!
I've considered doing so for awhile, but didn't for fear of sounding crazy. now, at least I'm not the only crazy one!! *smiles*.
Grace, thank you for doing what not many people would do in this case, and not let your personal beliefs determine your opinion about whether or not there should be such a board. Now, who else can be as open minded as Grace?
I try to be non-judgemental
as well as coming in from a place of understanding
If all persons do is jump at each other
when it comes to all the various
Personal beliefs/non-beliefs that are held
then how are we ever going to reach
any point of any understanding.
With the Zone here, communication is such
that when folks allow
Learning takes place and
in a way that I have not noted anywhere else.
There's no reason why not to include a board. That being said, if the religion board is any indication, if somebody is anti-atheist (not just has a faith, but has a thing against athests or is an activist of sorts), you'll probably suffer some of the same bashing some religious people do on their board.
But certainly having such a board is in order in my opinion.
I'm open to disagreement, of course. Any topic is subject to that.
I don't think we should have a board for religious or atheistic people, and that is not to say anything against jess's idea. I just feel that, if you are going to say something, whether it be about religion, atheism, dogs, the price of tea in china, anything, you have to be read for someone to present the other half of the coin. I don't think its right that one group is protected from other people throwing their arguments back at them, just because they're sensative, and its a sensative topic, and it might make them cry or whatever the case may be. If you have an opinion or a thought or a statement, make it, and be prepared to deal with the consequences of saying it. If you are too sensative to deal with the consequences of it, bite your tongue and keep quiet. that's the way life works. There are no safety lines in life. You can't tell someone not to dislike you because your sensative.
I get tired of these people that want everything sensatized and compartmentalized so they can voice their opinions safely. Why do you even have an opinion, if not to pit it against other opinions, to test the ideals of yourself and others? Is that not how our beliefs grow and evolve and become stronger? What good would it do to have an opinion, and never pit it against anyone elses opinion, never question it, never put it to the test?
Isn't that what happens with most religious people? They get told something when they're three, and never question it, so that when it gets challenged, it hurts so badly because they are finding out things about the faith that they haven't asked or known about for fifty years. If they'd asked more questions when they were tought, they wouldn't have that problem.
So no offense Jess, but I don't think we should have a board. I think we should throw our beliefs into the world, and maybe more people will agree with us. After all, believing there is no god, is just as religious as believing there is one. We just have to stop being afraid of people not liking us.
Having said that, feel free to throw my argument back in my face.
I agree with you, Silver lightning. I just don't think it's right for religious people to have a safe discussion place, and atheists/agnostics not to.
I agree with you, but I think we should fix that by removing their board, not adding one of our own.
Ah, I can just here it now, "religious persicution" claims made all over the place. But I agree with cody here, if you've got an opinion, either put up or shut up. The world doesn't work this way, and trying to creat artificial environments for every little thing only stifuls groath and evolution. Then again, i've noticed many just want to have their beleifs unchanging for all time, because its easier.
yeah, I must admit, I love silver lightning's idea.
It takes alot to offend or to upset me and I'm generally ready for a good debate. But there are people out there, particularly those grappling with something new and huge in their lives, whether it be religion, homosexuality or something else, who don't want a debate but who crave support, advice and understanding. So criticising someone who is coming to terms with the fact that he/she is a homosexual or who just found a new religion (or even lack their of) is calling to him/her can hardly be considered productive, especially in a place where we're supposed to be brought together. Even among those who are completely satisfied with their beliefs, there may be subjects which cause pain or even pure curiosity that they may want answered without jeering, fighting and so on. So I think that Safe Haven is a great idea and I love the idea of an atheism/agnostic board. If we can discuss our religions why shouldn't they be able to discuss their views?
Not every single event is up for debate, IMHO. I realize there is a small faction of humanity that wants to turn everything into a debate, and I'm all for the free exchange of ideas. But that free exchange does imply the freedom for groups to section off sometimes. There are unique problems dads face, for example, and if discussing something on a fatherhood forum / website, I don't really want to get into a raging debate - or have started one - about gender stereotypes / who does how much what when. Chances are, if I've posted a question there, it is to get a solution to a real problem. There are lots of open-square free-wheeling markets in which these debates can happen, and should happen unrestrained. But debate people often don't realize there are just times when debate isn't an issue or appropriate. Frankly I think sometimes it just gets into a form of mental masturbation, not really an exchange.
I agree. Many times, I don't care to debate anyone. I just want to express my point of view to find out if others think the way I do so I don't feel so alone in my thoughts. I do not want to have every little flaw pointed out. I do not want to be told I'll be punished for thinking the way I do and expressing it. I do not want to be told I am sick, bad, wrong, insane, lesser, whatever.
Yeah, last post I agree with you. When it comes down to this, I don't think any of us should post whether your Christian or atheist, just to make it fair to all people, because it's true it's all this God boards, but none for atheist people. So just to make it fair, I wouldn't post at all with any type of religion board, especially if it's a big deal.
Yeah. That's a good idea, Silver lightning. Either we should get a safe board, or theirs should be taken away. There's a time for debate, and a time for support, whether religious or not.
Atheism is not a religion. Nor is it a group. Nor is it your personal army.
Atheism is the lack-of-belief in God. If you feel that everyone needs to be hearing about your choice of lack of religion, be prepared to hear the other side's choice of having religion. Either way, you're all just yelling at the wall, my dears.
Actually, atheism is a religion. A religion is a collection of people with a shared faith. We all have a faith that there is no god. It does not mean not believing in religion, it means not believing in a god. Its still a religion.
No, it is not a personal army, why would we want it to be? Christianity at least is doing enough to destory itself without us needing an army, and science is swinging a pretty heavy sledgehammer to help it. I don't think atheism has much to do but sit back and pack a picnic lunch.
Why should they have the right to say, "well we're talking about god, we may need help with something". Do you think its easy being atheist? Do you think its easy being called devil worshipper and sinful and being looked down on whenever you express your opinion? If anyone has a hard time, its us, not christians who aren't sure if they want to devote to their god.
I heard a story of someone who had to change colleges because they were ridiculed so often by the chirstians there. So don't talk to us about needing someone to talk to or having questions. This is not an easy point of view to maintain.
thank you; very well said.
I see no reason why not have an atheist safe haven board for the reasons you have already expressed, and probably those you haven't yet discovered. It's not shouting at the walls, it's about precisely what you just pointed out.
Actually, atheism in itself is not a religion. It incorporates various religions, movements and points of view, from the totally antireligious, to those interested in some religions but who don't believe in them, to those who practise a religion without a deity. It's like the term pagan doesn't mean Wiccan, though one who practises Wicca is a pagan, as is, technically, anyone who's not a Christian. In any case, let's hope that this board goes up. I'd be interested to hear what the atheists here have to say.
two things:
firstly, I'm really not sure that atheism needs discussing, does it? I mean you're either an atheist, or you're not. As for the persicution of atheists, it would appear that's something that is unique to the US since I've never heard of it happening here. But if you believe in God then you either do or you don't, inot believing surely isn't something that we need to shout about/discuss?
Secondly, why the need for all these safe haven boards? Surely it's just common courtesey to respect someone's beliefs, assuming that those beliefs are not illegal. Do we really need a label to tell us that?
It isn't soully an american thing. I know atheists from other countries who meet with the same persecutions. It is, however, mainly a christian thing.
And I agree, though not for the same reason. But I don't think we need safe haven boards for anyone.
*shrugs* I'm an atheist (more or less) but to be honest it never even occurred to me to want a board for it. But to me, I've always seen it as "I am what I am."
That being said, growing up in a very religious family, it was rather hard dealing with it all initially. So I can sorta see the case for it. But, I'm not seeing that many requests for it. If there is enough interest, I'll create the board, as it would sorta be fair.
I've been reading this discussion and thinking of something. Why not just have the Religion Topics board name and description changed in such a way that it includes all beliefs: religious, atheism, agnostic, pegan, all of that stuff? Not sure what exactly it would be called, but I think that'd be better than creating a new Board and having one just for religious people and one just for atheism. Whether or not one is a Christian, Jew, Hindu, Muslim, pagan, atheist, or whatever, they all have in common that there is a belief (or not) in some higher power(s), and people from any of those belief systems or whatever can and probably do deal with discrimination and being given a hard time at some point in their lives just because of what they believe/don't believe. Also, people interested in any of those beliefs will want to know what is involved or what it is like being a Christian, atheist, or whatever it is, or what such a person's views are on a given topic. So instead of deleting the Religion Board or adding another board, why not just change the Religion Topics name and discription to something else so that it includes all of those things? Just my opinion. *smile*
i like the idea in the last post with this personally. it would seem to fit but wouldn't get many people angry about losing a board or what not
Yeah. On second thought, I agree with Silver Lightning. Nobody needs a sheltered place to hide. if you're that offended that you can't handle strong disagreement, maybe you need not be reading/posting to the boards, as has been demonstrated by certain people lately.
personally, I'm all for the religion board being taken away, and neither believers/nonbelievers having one.
if people can't handle certain topics, they can simply skip over them.
I'm not sure you guys are onto the right track.
As a software developer, there are forums for those of us dealing with technical issues we don't want to have to explain and re-explain to users coming onboard, because if we did, we wouldn't get anything done. Doctors have to confer, we engineers confer, all sorts of groups confer.
In life people find their groups to connect with, and that doesn't really mean they're easily offended or can't take a public sphere approach when necessary.
Sports people can go to sports bars, and enjoy the game in peace without people who hang around just to complain about how Joe is always watching football.
Religion boards and topics are similar, but perhaps more similar to the forum I was a part of seven years ago for sleep apnea people. I'd just discovered it, and in my early thirties didn't feel like I wanted to connect myself to a ginormous hose / mask that made me clausterphobic among other things.
So there are naysayers to the whole thing, sure, but when I needed to learn about it as I was dealing with it, I went to that forum designed for 'us'. In that case, the 'us' being a whole crowd of otherwise normal professional people leading full lives, traveling on business, and dealing with what was for me, at least, a newfound inconvenience and sense of embarrassment among other things.
The idea that atheists, religious people or any other group is being offended because they want to congregate and discuss things amongst themselves is silly.
Either way, both sides need to be able to accept and deal with the harsh reality that is strong disagreement. I'm all for structured debate, as long as it's fair, and everything goes. yes, I said "everything". If you're comfortable enough with your stance, whatever that may be, you should be able to take the other side with a grain of salt, and either present your point, or walk away. yes, people are going to disagree with you in less than constructive ways, and as long as you know where your views lie, that should be enough.
how about if the topic were renamed filosophy/religion?
To be honest I don't think that atheism would really provoke that many discussion threads as to warrant a whole new topic.
And while I certainly do agree that people need to be open to differences of opinion, I also think that it's not necessarily a bad idea to categorize discussions, if only for ease of reference.